<div>Giovanni et al, </div>
<div> </div>
<div>in the process of doing the same with EEGLAB and ERPLAB. Overall there is currenlty low interoperability of meta-data (event-data) across software packages, especially for beginning users. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Several quick thoughts and options below in this email, let me know if any of this helps, or if I was unclear/mistaken somewhere.</div>
<div>Also, when and if you find a solution path, please share with us and the list! Happy EEG!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1. considering doing the averaging and analyses in eeglab and/or erplab. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>2.1. If one is an expert eeglab user and mid to high level matlab programmer, one can deal with all the issues described below.</div>
<div>However, as a novice who is also working on transferring metadata across eeglab, NS, and EPtoolkit, these problems </div>
<div>still seem important.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>2.2. An issue to keep in mind is that in order to get good ICA decompositions, you should do some cleaning (removing of </div>
<div>continuous or epoched time periods) before feeding the data to ICA. Thus, these "missing" time periods need to be taken</div>
<div>into account when considering some of the options below. Anyway, the crucial bit is that your arrays of events and times</div>
<div>are correct and match up across the various imports/exports described below.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>2.3. Another issue to keep in mind ACROSS IMPORTS/EXPORTS ACROSS SOFTWARE PACKAGES </div>
<div>(I want to put it in the foreground) is timing issues (for examples, event times may shift or be distorted slightly), </div>
<div>data quality issues (for example, channel amplitude or channel locations may get mixed up slightly distorted), </div>
<div>and event time matchup issues.</div>
<div>I would suggest that, untill we are sure, let's assume that back and forthing between software packages is not very safe,</div>
<div>
<div>and may be affecting the data in undocumented ways. This suggests it's better to stay native, or only migrate once across </div>
<div>software packages (rather than two or more times, across two or more packages)</div></div>
<div> </div>
<div>3. AN EXISTING PATH TO HELP YOUR IMMEDIATE PROBLEM. If you look over the recent postings on this topic (see below), you will note Dr. Dominguez's (<span style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><a href="mailto:l.garcia.d@gmail.com" target="_blank">l.garcia.d@gmail.com</a>) </span>note that he has developed a working path (using Joseph <span>Dien</span>'s EP toolkit, search for it on Google) that works pretty well. He basically exported the events from Netstation, and then ran the netstation file through eeglab, then imported to EPToolkit, then exported to Netstation, and then read in the events via the Netstation markup tool. This should be one way to solve your issue. But read on...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4. An option for EXPORTING EEGLAB EVENTS AND IMPORTING INTO NETSTATION</div>
<div>a. exporting eeglab events with at least time and event name [either with existing functions, or via matlab script]<br>b. formatting the exported file so it is readable by Netstation [by examining/practicing with Markup chapter in NS manuals]</div>
<div>c. Making sure that the times in the exported file matches the times in the Netstation file [that the event time and relative location transfers correctly between the eeglab file and the destination netstation file</div>
<div> </div>
<div>5. An option for GETTING EVENTS FROM NETSTATION TO EEGLAB</div>
<div>These general points in Point #4 should also work in reverse, </div>
<div>when one wants to export events from netstation, and get them loaded into eeglab.</div>
<div>One could either import the event file (that was exported from NS)</div>
<div>by using eeglab event updating functions, or by writing a little matlab script to do the same,</div>
<div>essentially populate event fileds in eeglab with the event fields (TRSPs) from Netstation.</div>
<div>One needs to be careful here (AGAIN) about being sure that timing is matched up, and that nothing is lost in translation.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>6. GETTING RICH EVENTS FROM NETSTATION TO EEGLAB</div>
<div>Exporting events from NS to eeglab is especially helpful when dealing with rich "TRSPs" or "event-fields' that may have 5 to 100 subfields. One way to bypass (some of ) these problems is to put is to develop a series of epochs in Netstation</div>
<div>via the epoch markup tool ? (when you are in a segmenting tool, there is the option to NOT segment but rather to create NEW events</div>
<div>that represent the zero point of the segment in question. This allows you to create all the extra events you need</div>
<div>that may better reflect your "rich" events in Netstation. From there you can directly export and import into eeglab,</div>
<div>and you should see all these new events. See elesewhere in this email regarding options for marking up this file once you reimport it</div>
<div>Netstation after having worked on it in eeglab.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>5. If anybody has Netstation events into EEGLAB events experience, or vice versa, please let us know. </div>
<div>Eventually we can setup a webpage for the Netstation-EEGLAB gang.</div>
<div>If any of the options described above can be bettered, we would be glad to hear of it !</div>
<div> </div>
<div>6. Eventually, the new Netstation format will help things go more smoothly for inter-operability between software packages.</div>
<div>Also, for now, remember that you have the option of using EGI's toolbox for generating</div>
<div>Netstation files from within matlab, possibly skipping the EP step.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div><br>
<div><br></div><br><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Giovanni Mento <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:giovanni.mento@unipd.it">giovanni.mento@unipd.it</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div>I have read the messages about saving back files .set (after for example ICA on eeglab) in formats readable by Net Station.</div>
<div>I have imported a .raw continous eeg recorded with net station, segmented with EEGLAB epoching tool in 300 epochs (3 conditions), run ICA, removed artifactual components and saved as ICA_pruned.set file. So far so good.</div>
<div>Then, I have opened the .set with EP toolkit and simply saved the file as both .egis and binary file. Net station is now able to open the epoched and pruned .egis file but there is not the event-list (it only distinguishes cell 1 and cell2), therefore I'm not able to run additional analyses like averaging.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>How can I save in .raw format?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Is there any way to export or save the .egis file with the event list?Or simply to import an event-list on a continuous or segmented .raw file in Net station?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Maybe is better to segment before with net station and to run ICA on already segmented files instead of epoching with eeglab?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I realized that ICA is a beautiful tool for rejecting artifacts (i.e., eye blink, 50 Hz noise, etc), but it is not very simple to re-import files in net station.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Could anyone help me please?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Many thanks </div>
<div><br></div><br>
<div><span style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><br>Giovanni Mento, PhD</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Department od General Psychology</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">University of Padua</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Via Venezia, 8.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">35131, Padova (PD)</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">tel. <a href="tel:%2B39%20%280%2949%20827%206149" target="_blank" value="+390498276149">+39 (0)49 827 6149</a></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">fax. <a href="tel:%2B39%20%280%2949%20827%206600" target="_blank" value="+390498276600">+39 (0)49 827 6600</a></div></div></div></span></div><br>
<div>
<div>Il giorno 07/mag/11, alle ore 03:19, Joseph Dien ha scritto:</div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace">There have been some further developments on this front. EGI has been developing a new file format and been working with other software developers to get it supported. The problem with the NetStation native format is that it utilized some third-party software, which kept them from being able to have it be directly supported by others. This new MFF format has now been added to FieldTrip's fileio module by </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace">Ingrid Nieuwenhuis (who I am cc'ing on this). FieldTrip's Fileio module is used by other open source Matlab packages like EEGlab, SPM, and my own EP Toolkit to support other file formats so it should take very little effort to make use of it. </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace">I haven't had a chance to try it out myself yet but it sounds like it is ready to use. I think it is necessary to have the new 4.5 release of NetStation to try it out though. Perhaps Ingrid can give us more information.</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace">Cheers!</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace">Joe</span></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div><br>
<div>
<div>On May 4, 2011, at 8:32 PM, Tarik S Bel-Bahar wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<h1 style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium">Hi Stephanie,</h1>
<h1 style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium">Another user had a similar question recently. here is the response from me further below. Let me know if you got this email.<br></h1><b>Please do let me know via email if you find a solution that works for you.<br>
Please also let the eeglab list know. <br>Also don't forget solutions like ERPlab which allow you to forget about NS.</b><br><br>
<h1 style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium"><br></h1>
<h1 style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium">Greetings, <br></h1>
<h1 style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium">If you look over the most recent postings on this topic (see below), you will note Dr. Dominguez's (<span style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><a href="mailto:l.garcia.d@gmail.com" target="_blank">l.garcia.d@gmail.com</a>) </span>note that he has developed a working path (using Joseph <span>Dien</span>'s EP toolkit, search for it on Google) that works pretty well. Thus far, EEGLAB itself has not been extended for writing data that is readable back into Netstation. EGI <span>support</span> ( "<span>Support</span> Team" <<a href="mailto:supportteam@egi.com" target="_blank">supportteam@egi.com</a>> ) also has a matlab file that can help you write RAW files from matlab that are readable into Netstation. This file from EGI (as well as looking at the EP Toolkit code-which exports files readable by both EGI and EEGLAB), and a better understanding of the EGI file structure (by looking at their File Manual) may help you develop your own plugin. As there is a general interest in streamlining this process (see EEGLAB list archive and below), please let the EEGLAB list know if you make any further progress in this area, and perhaps we can add an EGI file exporter plugin to EEGLAB in the future. One related area that could also use some examination is maintaining the consistency of events codes and rich event sub-fields between Netstation and EGI, although this issue is generally resolved by saving out time stamped events from or into Netstation. If there are other users out there who have other working solutions in this general "Netstation to EEGLAB and back" area, please also let the list know, and perhaps we can collate all the current solutions onto a singular webpage for future reference. Respectfully. tb</h1>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<h1 style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium">[Eeglablist] from Netstation to EEGLab and back</h1><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium"><b>Michiel Spape</b></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium"> </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium"><a title="[Eeglablist] from Netstation to EEGLab and back" href="mailto:eeglablist%40sccn.ucsd.edu?Subject=Re:%20%5BEeglablist%5D%20from%20Netstation%20to%20EEGLab%20and%20back&In-Reply-To=%3C09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92DD78EA4FE%40EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk%3E" target="_blank">Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk </a></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium"><br>
</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium"><i>Mon Mar 14 02:54:35 PDT 2011</i></span>
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<span style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: medium"><pre>Hi,<br>Sorry - are you talking about reading in Netstation 'session files' rather than exported "raw" Netstation files? In that case, I, and probably most people using Netstation and EEGLab would be most interested. Any chance this could be added to the standard import/export plugins of EEGLab?<br>
Best,<br>Michiel<br><br>Michiel Spapé<br>Research Fellow<br>Perception & Action group<br>University of Nottingham<br>School of Psychology<br><a href="http://www.cognitology.eu/" target="_blank">www.cognitology.eu</a><br>
<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="http://sccn.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/eeglablist" target="_blank">eeglablist-bounces at sccn.ucsd.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="http://sccn.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/eeglablist" target="_blank">eeglablist-bounces at sccn.ucsd.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Luis Garcia Dominguez<br>
Sent: 09 March 2011 13:49<br>To: <a href="http://sccn.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/eeglablist" target="_blank">eeglablist at sccn.ucsd.edu</a><br>Subject: [Eeglablist] from Netstation to EEGLab and back<br><br>In case some of you have problems exporting and importing segmented<br>
files between Netstation and eeglab (ERP Toolkit) I can help. I have<br>been able to export files from NS to eeglab (with help from EGI), do<br>some transformation to the data and, save the files back in NS format<br>keeping all the necessary events. I know some of you have been<br>
interested on this issue in the past.<br>Many thanks to Tarik Bel Bahar, Joseph <span>Dien</span>, and Gaynor Foster (EGI)<br>for helping me.<br><br>-- <br>Luis García Domínguez </pre>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:20 AM, Stephanie C <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:s.connell@psy.gla.ac.uk" target="_blank">s.connell@psy.gla.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">Hi,<br><br>I am looking for guidance on how to export the data and associated metaddata from an EEGLAB .set file format back to a EGI.raw file format?<br>
<br>Any help would be greatly appreciated!<br><br>Cheers,<br>Stephanie<br><br><br>Stephanie Connell<br>Ph.D Student<br>School of Psychology<br>University of Glasgow<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br>