<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Nicolas and Arno,</div><div>I recently ran an ANOVA statistic of ERSP maps across conditions and encountered the same problem of inconsistency of statistics results each time I run the analysis.</div>
<div>In short, every time I run the permutation statistics analysis I get different significant electrodes.</div><div>I encountered this issue in EEGLAB 8,10 and 12 (didn't try 11). </div><div>I see now that Nicolas reported exactly the same problem.</div>
<div>Were you able to solve it?</div><div> </div><div>Thank you for your help,</div><div>Ilana</div><div> </div><div> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Arnaud Delorme <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arno@ucsd.edu" target="_blank">arno@ucsd.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style>Dear Nicolas,<div><br></div><div>your problem is worth investigating. I have checked with the tutorial STUDY, and the results with parametric statistics (EEGLAB) are strictly identical from one call to the next when plotting channel ERSP time-frequency images or channel ERSP scalp topographies. Also since 2010, we have a battery of independent test that check EEGLAB statistics agains the Matlab statistics toolbox. After adding Fieldtrip statistics to the EEGLAB graphic interface last year, we also implemented the same tests for these new functions (which is how we discovered a bug in Anova Fieldtrip statistics by the way - currently in the process of being fixed). </div>
<div>This said, no program is perfect. Please upload your data to Bugzilla so we can try reproduce the problem and see what is going on.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/bugzilla" target="_blank">http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/bugzilla</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>If your data is really large (>1Gb), put it on our public FTP server (ask Derrick Lock <<a href="mailto:dlock@ucsd.edu" target="_blank">dlock@ucsd.edu</a>> for the address as I prefer to write it here for security reasons). Let's also continue this discussion off the list.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Arno</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br><div><div>On 2 May 2013, at 09:30, Nicolas Rochet wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Dear Makoto and Arno,<br>
To sum up: i'm using study analysis using <b>channels</b> (with
GUI) to compare two conditions. After further testings, i have
similar issues with EEGLAB version 12 and 11.05.5.4b : the stats
maps (for condition comparaison in ERSP / ITC analysis) are
changing each time i replot whatever stats option i use. Also,
while ERP's topographics map are not changing, the significant
channels (when comparing the two conditions) are changing each
time i replot.<br>
Strangely, those issues only happens with EEGLAB statistic's
option, indeed when i choose Fieldtrip stat's option, i don't have
this problem: the stats map remains the same after each
replotting.<br>
<br>
cordially,<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
Le 30/04/2013 17:00, Makoto Miyakoshi a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Nicolas and Arno,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> some of these data, the stats are changing, whatever
stats option i used (parametric, permutations, with or without
holms correction and bonferoni correction). <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
Permutation results may change because this approach is based
on random permutation. However parametric test result should
not. Could you check it again?</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">> ERP's topographic map's ( the
significant channels are not the same each time i replot).<br>
<br>
Significant channels? You mean you are running STUDY analysis
using channels? If that's the case I'm not experienced with
it.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">However, changing topographic
maps is familiar with me. However, I want to know exactly what
you are doing (using ICs or channels)</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Makoto<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/4/26 Nicolas Rochet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nicolas.rochet@univ-provence.fr" target="_blank">nicolas.rochet@univ-provence.fr</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Hi Makoto,<br>
Firstly, I recomputed ERP, ERSP and ITC after updating
to version 12. I realised that (when using the study's
GUI with version 12) each time i plot some of these
data, the stats are changing, whatever stats option i
used (parametric, permutations, with or without holms
correction and bonferoni correction). <br>
For example. when i try to compare ERSP maps in two
different condition: each time i replot it, the
corresponding stat map is changing while the ERSP map
is the same. I had the same problem with ITC maps or
for ERP's topographic map's ( the significant channels
are not the same each time i replot).<br>
<br>
Do you have any idea ? Nobody seems to have reported
similar issues ....<br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
Le 18/04/2013 03:26, Makoto Miyakoshi a écrit :<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Nicolas,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd be interested in learning how much the
difference was. Would you mind explaining it
to us?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Makoto</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/4/15 Nicolas
Rochet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nicolas.rochet@univ-provence.fr" target="_blank">nicolas.rochet@univ-provence.fr</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
Dear EEGLAB community,<br>
I was previously using eeglab version
10.2.2.4b. After updating EEGLAB<br>
to version 12.0.2.0b (with SVN) the SAME
data (ie ERP, ERSP and ITC<br>
grand average) processed with the study
protocol are different with the<br>
two version<br>
Does anybody encountered similar issues ?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
--<br>
Nicolas Rochet, PhD Student<br>
Laboratoire de Neurosciences Cognitives, UMR
7291<br>
<br>
Université de Provence / CNRS<br>
Pôle 3C - Case C<br>
3 place Victor Hugo<br>
13331 Marseille Cedex 03<br>
France<br>
<br>
tel : <a href="tel:%28%2B33%29%2004%2013%2055%2009%2000" target="_blank" value="+33413550900">(+33)
04 13 55 09 00</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Makoto Miyakoshi<br>
Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience<br>
Institute for Neural Computation, University
of California San Diego<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Nicolas Rochet, PhD Student
Laboratoire de Neurosciences Cognitives, UMR 7291
Université de Provence / CNRS
Pôle 3C - Case C
3 place Victor Hugo
13331 Marseille Cedex 03
France
tel : <a href="tel:%28%2B33%29%2004%2013%2055%2009%2000" target="_blank" value="+33413550900">(+33) 04 13 55 09 00</a></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Eeglablist page: <a href="http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html" target="_blank">http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Makoto Miyakoshi<br>
Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience<br>
Institute for Neural Computation, University of California
San Diego<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Nicolas Rochet, PhD Student
Laboratoire de Neurosciences Cognitives, UMR 7291
Université de Provence / CNRS
Pôle 3C - Case C
3 place Victor Hugo
13331 Marseille Cedex 03
France
tel : <a href="tel:%28%2B33%29%2004%2013%2055%2009%2000" target="_blank" value="+33413550900">(+33) 04 13 55 09 00</a></pre>
</div>
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