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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=NL-BE link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Makoto<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thank You very much for the quick reply. I carefully checked the material You indicated in the link to the 2013 workshop (quite extensive but also very interesting material) but could not find much specfic on the phase content (imaginary part) of the reconstructed EEG signals. In your mail You wrote to me “of course it will change phase”. Is that “of course” because of a regression process in reconstructing the time points from the remaining components (after the artefact components have been removed) or is there another reason ? I would like to understand the mathematics and can only come up with this explanation but maybe I see it wrongly. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I read the article of Roberto Montefusco who concluded ( on both reaml EEG and simulated signals) that the phase changes after reconstructing the signal s are non stationary in time , location and frequency. For instanced he found major changes (after removing blink components ) at Fz, around 6 hz. But they were also present at other sensor locations and frequencies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Phase was determined by using the Hilbert transform.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>All help and explanations would be very much appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>-Sincerely<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Georges Otte<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Makoto Miyakoshi [mailto:mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu] <br><b>Envoyé :</b> dinsdag 16 september 2014 4:09<br><b>À :</b> otte georges<br><b>Cc :</b> EEGLAB List<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [Eeglablist] ICA and signal phase content<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Georges,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If you remove IC and reconstruct channel EEG by backprojecting the remaining ICs, of course it changes channel EEG phase!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Here is our EEGLAB workshop 2013 materials. You can find several powerpoint/pdf files that explains how ICA works on data cleaning.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://sccn.ucsd.edu/wiki/EEGLAB_2013_UCSD">http://sccn.ucsd.edu/wiki/EEGLAB_2013_UCSD</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Makoto<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 7:50 AM, otte georges <<a href="mailto:georges.otte@pandora.be" target="_blank">georges.otte@pandora.be</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Dear ICA experts</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>There is some discussion going on about the evidence that reconstructing an multichannel EEG after ICA decomposition and removing one or two artefact components could result in scrambling the phase content (and coherence) of the reconstructed signals. Fi starting from a 19 ch EEG, removing two components with fi electrode pops and sweat artefacts , reconstructing the 19 ch EEG from 17 components (taking out the artefact containing ones) without those artefacts. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Others say that this is not the case and that ICA respects the phase. However many authors (Zeman, Thatcher..) have published very convincing data to the contrary.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Any suggestions how to evaluate this ? Is it known from the algorithm what the reconstruction will do to the phase content (imaginary part of the signal) ?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>All help is very welcome</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Sincerely</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#888888'> </span><span style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#888888'>Georges</span><span style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#888888'> </span><span style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>Eeglablist page: <a href="http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html" target="_blank">http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html</a><br>To unsubscribe, send an empty email to <a href="mailto:eeglablist-unsubscribe@sccn.ucsd.edu">eeglablist-unsubscribe@sccn.ucsd.edu</a><br>For digest mode, send an email with the subject "set digest mime" to <a href="mailto:eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu">eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Makoto Miyakoshi<br>Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience<br>Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>