<div dir="ltr">No, that is not recommended. If you put more dipoles, residual variances become always smaller, which is meaningless. You have no reason to justify the two dipoles in terms of ICA; ICA usually gives you dipolar scalp topos for true EEG sources...<div><br></div><div>Makoto</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Salim Al-wasity <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salim_alwasity@yahoo.com" target="_blank">salim_alwasity@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr">Dears</div><div dir="ltr">I ran the 'fine_fit' with 'symmetry constrain for dipole' is OFF. I did that to get lower RV value.</div><div><div class="h5"> <br><div><br><br></div><div style="display:block"> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> On Thursday, 19 March 2015, 17:48, Makoto Miyakoshi <<a href="mailto:mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu" target="_blank">mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu</a>> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div><div><div><div dir="ltr">Dear Salim,<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Well, I'm concerned with the two dipole fit results. They don't seem symmetrical. How did you obtain the current positions?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Makoto</div></div><div><br clear="none"><div><div>On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:28 AM, Salim Al-wasity <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:salim_alwasity@yahoo.com" target="_blank">salim_alwasity@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><span></span><div dir="ltr">Dear Mr. Makoto</div><div dir="ltr">Thanks for your reply. I attached a picture of bilateral dipoles obtained by (Locate Dipoles using DIPFIT2> Plot component dipoles) and it shows only only coordinate. However (Locate Dipoles using DIPFIT2> Fine fit) shows two coordinates. Which coordinates are the correct one?</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Sincerely</div><div dir="ltr">Salim</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcudzlhTzJEU21xUUk/view?usp=sharing" target="_blank">dipoles.JPG</a><br clear="none"></div><div style="width:450px;font-family:'Georgia','Times','Times New Roman','serif';margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;background-color:#ffffff"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="width:450px;height:170px;display:block"><tbody><tr><td colspan="8" rowspan="1" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="vertical-align:middle;width:168px;height:168px;background-color:#000000;border-collapse:collapse"><div align="center" style="width:168px"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcudzlhTzJEU21xUUk/view?usp=sharing" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000000!important" target="_blank"><img alt="image" src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/O74O7G3nfObl7sI5V42MH7uIcI1YZu4BGKS7bWCHVMuVze2M9kzWAA=w1200-h630-p" width="168" height="88" style="display:block;margin:auto"></a></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:14px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:14px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:14pt"> </div></td><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="height:6px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:6px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:6pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:20px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:20px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:20pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" width="1" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt"> </div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Georgia','Times','Times New Roman','serif'"><div style="line-height:16.5px;background-color:#ffffff;min-height:135px;width:245px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span></span><span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcudzlhTzJEU21xUUk/view?usp=sharing" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000000!important;line-height:100%;font-size:18px;display:block" target="_blank"><span style="margin:0;font-weight:normal;margin-bottom:3px;font-size:18px;line-height:21px;max-height:43px;color:#000000;overflow:hidden!important;display:inline-block">dipoles.JPG</span></a></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="height:4px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:4px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:4pt"></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Arial','Helvetica Neue','Helvetica','sans-serif'"><div style="font-size:0pt"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcudzlhTzJEU21xUUk/view?usp=sharing" style="color:black;text-decoration:none!important" target="_blank"><span style="display:inline-block;line-height:11px;max-width:145px;min-width:85px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999">View on <span style="font-weight:bold">drive.google.com</span></span></span></a></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;font-family:'Arial','Helvetica Neue','Helvetica','sans-serif'"><div style="max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;line-height:11px;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999">Preview by Yahoo</span></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="height:9px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:9px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:9pt"></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="8" rowspan="1" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcuRGdyNm9IUFg5azA/view?usp=sharing" target="_blank">fine fit.JPG</a></div><div style="width:450px;font-family:'Georgia','Times','Times New Roman','serif';margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;background-color:#ffffff"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="width:450px;height:170px;display:block"><tbody><tr><td colspan="8" rowspan="1" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="vertical-align:middle;width:168px;height:168px;background-color:#000000;border-collapse:collapse"><div align="center" style="width:168px"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcuRGdyNm9IUFg5azA/view?usp=sharing" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000000!important" target="_blank"><img alt="image" src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/zNS-30marOU5_khx_cWRBuxzR8OE20SjVsveZ5Aqkwf5r9FKmvWLsA=w1200-h630-p" width="168" height="88" style="display:block;margin:auto"></a></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:14px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:14px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:14pt"> </div></td><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="height:6px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:6px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:6pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" style="width:20px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:20px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:20pt"> </div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="5" width="1" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt"> </div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Georgia','Times','Times New Roman','serif'"><div style="line-height:16.5px;background-color:#ffffff;min-height:135px;width:245px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span></span><span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcuRGdyNm9IUFg5azA/view?usp=sharing" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000000!important;line-height:100%;font-size:18px;display:block" target="_blank"><span style="margin:0;font-weight:normal;margin-bottom:3px;font-size:18px;line-height:21px;max-height:43px;color:#000000;overflow:hidden!important;display:inline-block">fine fit.JPG</span></a></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="height:4px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:4px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:4pt"></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Arial','Helvetica Neue','Helvetica','sans-serif'"><div style="font-size:0pt"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-waDFAaEHcuRGdyNm9IUFg5azA/view?usp=sharing" style="color:black;text-decoration:none!important" target="_blank"><span style="display:inline-block;line-height:11px;max-width:145px;min-width:85px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999">View on <span style="font-weight:bold">drive.google.com</span></span></span></a></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;font-family:'Arial','Helvetica Neue','Helvetica','sans-serif'"><div style="max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;line-height:11px;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999">Preview by Yahoo</span></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="height:9px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:9px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:9pt"></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="8" rowspan="1" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="min-height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><div><div> </div> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="display:block"> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> On Wednesday, 4 March 2015, 15:50, Salim Al-wasity <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:salim_alwasity@yahoo.com" target="_blank">salim_alwasity@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div><div><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr">Dear Mr. Makoto</div><div dir="ltr">Thanks for your reply. I attached a picture of bilateral dipoles obtained by (Locate Dipoles using DIPFIT2> Plot component dipoles) and it shows only only coordinate. However (Locate Dipoles using DIPFIT2> Fine fit) shows two coordinates. Which coordinates are the correct one?</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Sincerely</div><div dir="ltr">Salim</div> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="display:block"> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> On Tuesday, 3 March 2015, 2:03, Makoto Miyakoshi <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu" target="_blank">mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div><div><div><div dir="ltr">Dear Salim and Arno (cc Caterina)<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Sorry for the slow response.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> Therefore I used bilateral dipoles to reduce the RV.</span><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Use bilateral dipole only when you see clear bilateral scalp topography!</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> 1- In (plot component dipoles) options, it gives me only one coordination ever if I have two dipoles. How can I know where these two dipoles are?</div><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Really? That sounds weird to me. You should close the fine fit window by pressing 'ok' and not 'x' to update the data.</div><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>2- Using a PCA clustering approach, I might find one cluster located at the right hemisphere but it has some dipoles at the left side (bilateral dipoles), Is this cluster correct?</div></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Yes, that should be correct. To be honest I don't know how STUDY clustering handles dual dipoles, and I (and Caterina also) have wanted to know about it. Arno?</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Makoto</span></div><div><br clear="none"><div>On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Salim Al-wasity <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:salim_alwasity@yahoo.com" target="_blank">salim_alwasity@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div>Dears<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">After decompose my EEG data to components using ICA and estimate their dipoles, some of these dipoles have high residual variance(RV). Therefore I used bilateral dipoles to reduce the RV.</div><div dir="ltr">1- In (plot component dipoles) options, it gives me only one coordination ever if I have two dipoles. How can I know where these two dipoles are?</div><div dir="ltr">2- Using a PCA clustering approach, I might find one cluster located at the right hemisphere but it has some dipoles at the left side (bilateral dipoles), Is this cluster correct?</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Sincerely</div><span><font color="#888888"></font></span><div dir="ltr">Salim</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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For digest mode, send an email with the subject "set digest mime" to <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu</a><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">Makoto Miyakoshi<br clear="none">Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience<br clear="none">Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego<br clear="none"></div></div>
</div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div> </div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">Makoto Miyakoshi<br clear="none">Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience<br clear="none">Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego<br clear="none"></div></div>
</div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Makoto Miyakoshi<br>Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience<br>Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego<br></div></div>
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