<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top"><div id='yahoo__compose_area' style="background-color:white; display:block; font-family:HelveticaNeue-Regular,Helvetica;"><div id="yahoo__compose_area" style="background-color:white; display:block; font-family:HelveticaNeue-Regular,Helvetica;"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="top"><div id="yahoo__compose_area" style="background-color:white;display:block;font-family:HelveticaNeue-Regular, Helvetica;">Hello All,<div>I also have doubt about re-referencing to average reference from earlobe. If we look back to the calculation of average reference, the previous reference (fixed reference) should be included as a separate channel with other EEG active channels then only the calculation work fine.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">AHMED</div></div><div class="yQTDBase" id="yahoo__original_message" contenteditable="true"><div
class="yQTDBase yqt9302020930" id="yqtfd77041"><br clear="none"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">At 5 Jun 2015 12:14:29 pm, David G Gilbert wrote:<style type="text/css">p {margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;}</style>
<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>Once we have changed the original 19-channel data reference from linked ears to average reference, does rejecting components create a problem if the components include the linked earlobes once we re-rereference that data after cleaning back to linked ears?
We have the following questions concerning this double-re-referencing question. Here are some of our thoughts.
</p>
<p> </p>
We have been working on the referencing issue with MATLAB (referencing to average reference while retaining "LE"-linked earlobes). We have explored many different options but have come to no solutions to a
<em>potential </em>problem. Our <em>potential</em> problem is that we have not been able to avoid including the LE as part of the average reference and part of the ICA without MARA crashing. I would assume that this would likely not cause any problems for
us as the only purpose of our average reference is ICA, and our only purpose for ICA is removing eyeblinks/lateral eye movement/EKG/EMG. However, because the LE is included in the average reference, it is
<em>technically</em> possible that removal of components could affect the LE data in marginal ways(i.e. removal of frontal eyeblinks or BSS may or may not affect LE and therefore affect our LE reference). We have been unable to alter this in any way, however,
the flip-side of this would be that IF LE was altered by MARA(i.e. cleaned up by MARA) it may even make for a cleaner initial reference and might not be a bad thing at all. Please let us know your thoughts on this as we have come to a standstill on how to
deal with this <em>potential</em> problem or if we should just move ahead including the LE in the average reference and then referencing back to LE after ICA/MARA/CORRMAP are completed.
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;">Any answers would be appreciated,</div>
<p>Dave Gilbert</p>
<div class="yQTDBase yqt3788547903" id="yqt30301"><div style="color:rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="width:98%;display:inline-block;">
<div dir="ltr" id="divRplyFwdMsg"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;"><b>From:</b> eeglablist-bounces@sccn.ucsd.edu on behalf of Dezhong Yao <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 3, 2015 7:29 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Ahmed Almurshedi; EEGLAB List<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Eeglablist] Re-reference average reference</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div> Dear Ahmed<br clear="none">
The earlobe reference may have a distinct effect on the earby channels, and average reference may also shift the data of all the channels.<br clear="none">
The best choice in physics is a zero reference, now there is a free software -REST which can transform a earlobe reference or average reference or any other reference to the idea zero reference. You may find this software at:<br clear="none">
http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/rest/<br clear="none">
Best wishes<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
---------- Origin message ----------<br clear="none">
>From："Ahmed Almurshedi" <br clear="none">
>To："EEGLAB List" <br clear="none">
>Subject：[Eeglablist] Re-reference average reference<br clear="none">
>Date：2015-06-03 01:56:12<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Eeglablist page: http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html<br clear="none">
To unsubscribe, send an empty email to eeglablist-unsubscribe@sccn.ucsd.edu<br clear="none">
For digest mode, send an email with the subject "set digest mime" to eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
----------------
<div id="_">
<address>Dezhong Yao PhD<br clear="none">
Cheung Kong Professor of Neuroengineering, Neuroimaging<br clear="none">
E-mail: dyao@uestc.edu.cn<br clear="none">
Fax: 86-28-83208238; Tel: 86-28-83201018<br clear="none">
Director, Key Laboratory for NeuroInformation, Ministry of Education, China<br clear="none">
International Joint Research Center for NeuroInformation, Ministry of Science and Technology, China <br clear="none">
Dean, School of Life Science and Technology, University of Electronic Science and Technology of China, Sichuan,Chengdu 610054, China<br clear="none">
Director, Center for Information in BioMedicine, University of Electronic Science and Technology of China, China<br clear="none">
http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/bci/member/yao/yao.html<br clear="none">
</address>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
<div></div></blockquote></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div class="yQTDBase yqt9302020930" id="yqtfd41212">
</div></div><div id="yahoo__original_message" class="yQTDBase"><div class="yQTDBase yqt9302020930" id="yqtfd77041"><br clear="none"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">At 5 Jun 2015 12:14:29 pm, David G Gilbert wrote:<style type="text/css">p {margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;}</style>
<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>Once we have changed the original 19-channel data reference from linked ears to average reference, does rejecting components create a problem if the components include the linked earlobes once we re-rereference that data after cleaning back to linked ears?
We have the following questions concerning this double-re-referencing question. Here are some of our thoughts.
</p>
<p> </p>
We have been working on the referencing issue with MATLAB (referencing to average reference while retaining "LE"-linked earlobes). We have explored many different options but have come to no solutions to a
<em>potential </em>problem. Our <em>potential</em> problem is that we have not been able to avoid including the LE as part of the average reference and part of the ICA without MARA crashing. I would assume that this would likely not cause any problems for
us as the only purpose of our average reference is ICA, and our only purpose for ICA is removing eyeblinks/lateral eye movement/EKG/EMG. However, because the LE is included in the average reference, it is
<em>technically</em> possible that removal of components could affect the LE data in marginal ways(i.e. removal of frontal eyeblinks or BSS may or may not affect LE and therefore affect our LE reference). We have been unable to alter this in any way, however,
the flip-side of this would be that IF LE was altered by MARA(i.e. cleaned up by MARA) it may even make for a cleaner initial reference and might not be a bad thing at all. Please let us know your thoughts on this as we have come to a standstill on how to
deal with this <em>potential</em> problem or if we should just move ahead including the LE in the average reference and then referencing back to LE after ICA/MARA/CORRMAP are completed.
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;">Any answers would be appreciated,</div>
<p>Dave Gilbert</p>
<div class="yQTDBase yqt3788547903" id="yqt30301"><div style="color:rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="width:98%;display:inline-block;">
<div dir="ltr" id="divRplyFwdMsg"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;"><b>From:</b> eeglablist-bounces@sccn.ucsd.edu on behalf of Dezhong Yao <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 3, 2015 7:29 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Ahmed Almurshedi; EEGLAB List<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Eeglablist] Re-reference average reference</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div> Dear Ahmed<br clear="none">
The earlobe reference may have a distinct effect on the earby channels, and average reference may also shift the data of all the channels.<br clear="none">
The best choice in physics is a zero reference, now there is a free software -REST which can transform a earlobe reference or average reference or any other reference to the idea zero reference. You may find this software at:<br clear="none">
http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/rest/<br clear="none">
Best wishes<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
---------- Origin message ----------<br clear="none">
>From："Ahmed Almurshedi" <br clear="none">
>To："EEGLAB List" <br clear="none">
>Subject：[Eeglablist] Re-reference average reference<br clear="none">
>Date：2015-06-03 01:56:12<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Eeglablist page: http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html<br clear="none">
To unsubscribe, send an empty email to eeglablist-unsubscribe@sccn.ucsd.edu<br clear="none">
For digest mode, send an email with the subject "set digest mime" to eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
----------------
<div id="_">
<address>Dezhong Yao PhD<br clear="none">
Cheung Kong Professor of Neuroengineering, Neuroimaging<br clear="none">
E-mail: dyao@uestc.edu.cn<br clear="none">
Fax: 86-28-83208238; Tel: 86-28-83201018<br clear="none">
Director, Key Laboratory for NeuroInformation, Ministry of Education, China<br clear="none">
International Joint Research Center for NeuroInformation, Ministry of Science and Technology, China <br clear="none">
Dean, School of Life Science and Technology, University of Electronic Science and Technology of China, Sichuan,Chengdu 610054, China<br clear="none">
Director, Center for Information in BioMedicine, University of Electronic Science and Technology of China, China<br clear="none">
http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/bci/member/yao/yao.html<br clear="none">
</address>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
<div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id='yahoo__original_message' class='yQTDBase'><div class="yQTDBase yqt9302020930" id="yqtfd77041"><br clear="none"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">At 5 Jun 2015 12:14:29 pm, David G Gilbert wrote:<style type="text/css">p {margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;}</style>
<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>Once we have changed the original 19-channel data reference from linked ears to average reference, does rejecting components create a problem if the components include the linked earlobes once we re-rereference that data after cleaning back to linked ears?
We have the following questions concerning this double-re-referencing question. Here are some of our thoughts.
</p>
<p> </p>
We have been working on the referencing issue with MATLAB (referencing to average reference while retaining "LE"-linked earlobes). We have explored many different options but have come to no solutions to a
<em>potential </em>problem. Our <em>potential</em> problem is that we have not been able to avoid including the LE as part of the average reference and part of the ICA without MARA crashing. I would assume that this would likely not cause any problems for
us as the only purpose of our average reference is ICA, and our only purpose for ICA is removing eyeblinks/lateral eye movement/EKG/EMG. However, because the LE is included in the average reference, it is
<em>technically</em> possible that removal of components could affect the LE data in marginal ways(i.e. removal of frontal eyeblinks or BSS may or may not affect LE and therefore affect our LE reference). We have been unable to alter this in any way, however,
the flip-side of this would be that IF LE was altered by MARA(i.e. cleaned up by MARA) it may even make for a cleaner initial reference and might not be a bad thing at all. Please let us know your thoughts on this as we have come to a standstill on how to
deal with this <em>potential</em> problem or if we should just move ahead including the LE in the average reference and then referencing back to LE after ICA/MARA/CORRMAP are completed.
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;">Any answers would be appreciated,</div>
<p>Dave Gilbert</p>
<div class="yQTDBase yqt3788547903" id="yqt30301"><div style="color:rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="width:98%;display:inline-block;">
<div dir="ltr" id="divRplyFwdMsg"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;"><b>From:</b> eeglablist-bounces@sccn.ucsd.edu on behalf of Dezhong Yao <br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 3, 2015 7:29 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Ahmed Almurshedi; EEGLAB List<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Eeglablist] Re-reference average reference</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div> Dear Ahmed<br clear="none">
The earlobe reference may have a distinct effect on the earby channels, and average reference may also shift the data of all the channels.<br clear="none">
The best choice in physics is a zero reference, now there is a free software -REST which can transform a earlobe reference or average reference or any other reference to the idea zero reference. You may find this software at:<br clear="none">
http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/rest/<br clear="none">
Best wishes<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
---------- Origin message ----------<br clear="none">
>From："Ahmed Almurshedi" <br clear="none">
>To："EEGLAB List" <br clear="none">
>Subject：[Eeglablist] Re-reference average reference<br clear="none">
>Date：2015-06-03 01:56:12<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Eeglablist page: http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html<br clear="none">
To unsubscribe, send an empty email to eeglablist-unsubscribe@sccn.ucsd.edu<br clear="none">
For digest mode, send an email with the subject "set digest mime" to eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
----------------
<div id="_">
<address>Dezhong Yao PhD<br clear="none">
Cheung Kong Professor of Neuroengineering, Neuroimaging<br clear="none">
E-mail: dyao@uestc.edu.cn<br clear="none">
Fax: 86-28-83208238; Tel: 86-28-83201018<br clear="none">
Director, Key Laboratory for NeuroInformation, Ministry of Education, China<br clear="none">
International Joint Research Center for NeuroInformation, Ministry of Science and Technology, China <br clear="none">
Dean, School of Life Science and Technology, University of Electronic Science and Technology of China, Sichuan,Chengdu 610054, China<br clear="none">
Director, Center for Information in BioMedicine, University of Electronic Science and Technology of China, China<br clear="none">
http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/bci/member/yao/yao.html<br clear="none">
</address>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
<div></div></blockquote></div></div></html></td></tr></table>