<div dir="ltr">Hi Vishal, Makoto, and all,<div><br></div><div>I have also had a similar issue with running ASR. I tried several parameter combinations for the Burst Criterion (values of 3 and 5), and Window Criterion (values of 0.1 and 0.25), and each combination of these. It frequently led to seemingly highly-correlated channel time-series data. Then the resulting ICA patterns were not very interpretable: ironically, every component seemed to basically represent a single electrode, with a very focal peak in the topo map, and very little neural activity in the ERP image.</div><div><br></div><div>For some datasets, however, the ASR pre-ICA cleaning step really cleared up the data and revealed a number of neural components that manual cleaning did not reveal. I haven't determined yet what the critical difference is that affects the ASR performance..</div><div><br></div><div>James<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 3:00 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">eeglablist-request@sccn.ucsd.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send eeglablist mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Highly Correlated channels after applying ASR<br>
(Makoto Miyakoshi)<br>
2. Re: Interpreting Brodmann Area and Anatomical location of<br>
Domain in MPT analysis (Makoto Miyakoshi)<br>
3. Re: Simultaneous recording of EEG and Robot motion<br>
(Makoto Miyakoshi)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Makoto Miyakoshi <<a href="mailto:mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu">mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu</a>><br>To: Vishal Vijayakumar <<a href="mailto:vijay059@umn.edu">vijay059@umn.edu</a>><br>Cc: EEGLAB List <<a href="mailto:eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu">eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu</a>><br>Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:00:22 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Eeglablist] Highly Correlated channels after applying ASR<br><div dir="ltr">Dear Vishal,<div><br></div><div>What do you see when you perform average reference? How many channels do you have by the way? Also, what types of cap are you using? If EGI, check if they were bridged by any chance...</div><div><br></div><div>Makoto</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Vishal Vijayakumar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vijay059@umn.edu" target="_blank">vijay059@umn.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Hello,</div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Apologies if you've answered this question already, but I observe that data across my channels look highly correlated after applying ASR to the filtered EEG data. My project involves analyzing tonic thermal pain, so I apply ASR to 4 minute segments of the data. Because of the high correlation, my ICA sphering matrix is quite large in magnitude (minimum value of 1800) for many subjects. I also disable any channel-based rejection because I'd like to concatenate data across subjects for group ICA. My current problem persists even during single subject analysis.</div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, and I'd appreciate any insight you can provide!</div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Thanks,</div><div style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Vishal</div></div>
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</div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Makoto Miyakoshi <<a href="mailto:mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu">mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu</a>><br>To: Mohammed Jarjees <<a href="mailto:m.jarjees.1@research.gla.ac.uk">m.jarjees.1@research.gla.ac.uk</a>><br>Cc: "<a href="mailto:eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu">eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu">eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu</a>><br>Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:15:49 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Eeglablist] Interpreting Brodmann Area and Anatomical location of Domain in MPT analysis<br><div dir="ltr">Dear Mohammed,<div><br></div><div>Sorry for belated response.</div><div>I asked the question to Nima and obtained the following response.</div><div><br></div><div>1. The data come from two different atlases.</div><div>2. Any area less than 0.5 contribution is not shown (wihch is why they don't sum up to 1).</div><div>3. For Brodmann area (in Talairach), it uses the closest cortical voxel. Basal ganglia is removed from this.</div><div><br></div><div>Probably 1 and 2 explains the difference.</div><div><br></div><div>Makoto</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 1:57 AM, Mohammed Jarjees <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:m.jarjees.1@research.gla.ac.uk" target="_blank">m.jarjees.1@research.gla.ac.<wbr>uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356WordSection1"><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText">I have used Measure Projection Toolbox (MPT) to analyse motor imagery EEG data. In some domains I get Brodmann areas contributing and corresponding anatomical areas which are not covering these Brodmann areas at all (example below). If they are complementary, then why BA adds up to 91% and anatomical areas up to 83%?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p><table class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoTableGrid" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="margin-left:110.6pt;border-collapse:collapse;border:none"><tbody><tr><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Brodmann areas<u></u><u></u></span></b></p></td><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Probability<u></u><u></u></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">BA 25<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">BA 23<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">BA 34<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">BA 29<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">BA 28<u></u><u></u></span></p></td><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.47<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.16<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.16<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.06<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.06<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Total Probability<u></u><u></u></span></b></p></td><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.91<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Anatomical areas<u></u><u></u></span></b></p></td><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Probabilities<u></u><u></u></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">L Caudate<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Brainstem<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">R Caudate<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">L Putamen<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Total Probability</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></td><td width="160" valign="top" style="width:119.7pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.29<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.23<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.17<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.14<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">0.83</span></b><u></u><u></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText">I understand that anatomical areas can be wider than BAs, but shouldn't it anatomical areas cover BAs?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText">How should I interpret this?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText">Best Regards<span class="m_3522393844565616433HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></p><span class="m_3522393844565616433HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><p class="m_3522393844565616433m_7048472141477172356MsoPlainText">Mohammed<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></font></span></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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</div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Makoto Miyakoshi <<a href="mailto:mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu">mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu</a>><br>To: Sanjaya Vipula <<a href="mailto:sanjayavipula@gmail.com">sanjayavipula@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: EEGLAB List <<a href="mailto:eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu">eeglablist@sccn.ucsd.edu</a>><br>Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:45:54 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Eeglablist] Simultaneous recording of EEG and Robot motion<br><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Sanjaya,</div><div><br></div>Right, maybe post-hoc signal processing can treat it well. At least, you can optimize the hardware so that the noise can be easier to be handled with.<div><br></div><div>Makoto</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Sanjaya Vipula <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sanjayavipula@gmail.com" target="_blank">sanjayavipula@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Makoto,<div><br></div><div>Exactly as you anticipated, the behavior is really different depending on the conductivity. </div><div><br></div><div>However the major problem is when the motor is operating the noise level is too high. I am going to try to identify a exact noise band related to the motor movement and to filter it as some of the members have suggested.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your comment.</div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Sanjaya</div></div><div class="m_3877761086309443480HOEnZb"><div class="m_3877761086309443480h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 October 2016 at 16:56, Makoto Miyakoshi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu" target="_blank">mmiyakoshi@ucsd.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Sanjaya,<div><br></div><div>Hmm that's a difficult question.</div><div>Probably you can test it step by step. For example, while touching the robot with a rubber hand vs. bare hand, or using wood stick vs. rubber stick vs. conductive stick, or touch, close but no touch, no touch far, etc. I'm sure the artifact level is highest when subject's body touches the robot. Could there be any non-conductive material between a subject and and the robot to prevent the artifact from contaminating EEG?</div><div><br></div><div>Makoto</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_3877761086309443480m_5295889480160949120h5">On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 12:29 AM, Sanjaya Vipula <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sanjayavipula@gmail.com" target="_blank">sanjayavipula@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_3877761086309443480m_5295889480160949120h5"><div dir="ltr">Dear All,<div><br></div><div>I need some advice on a problem I face during EEG recording.</div><div><br></div><div>I am trying to record EEG simultaneously with an exoskeleton movement. The subject wear the exoskeleton during the experiments. </div><div><br></div><div>When the exoskeleton is not operating normal EEG signals can be observed from subject. However when the exoskeleton is operating a huge noise can observed in the EEG recordings. </div><div><br></div><div>I tried separating the power source of the EEG amplifier and the robot. The noise is probably due to the motor operation. How the effect from the motor operation can be suppressed in the EEG signal?</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you very much in advance for any comments and tips.</div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Sanjaya<span class="m_3877761086309443480m_5295889480160949120m_2893819171491900000HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_3877761086309443480m_5295889480160949120m_2893819171491900000m_8816657676943997047gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:left"><a href="mailto:sanjayavipula@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a>Sanjaya Vipula Bandara,<br></div><div style="text-align:left"><font size="1">B.Sc. Mech.Eng.(SL), MPhil.Biorobotics(SL), AMIESL</font></div><div style="text-align:left">PhD Student,</div>Department of Mechanical Engineering,<br>Kyushu University,<br>Fukuoka,<br><div>Japan</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_3877761086309443480m_5295889480160949120gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:left"><a href="mailto:sanjayavipula@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a>Sanjaya Vipula Bandara,<br></div><div style="text-align:left"><font size="1">B.Sc. Mech.Eng.(SL), MPhil.Biorobotics(SL), AMIESL</font></div><div style="text-align:left">PhD Student,</div>Department of Mechanical Engineering,<br>Kyushu University,<br>Fukuoka,<br><div>Japan</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_3877761086309443480gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Makoto Miyakoshi<br>Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience<br>Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego<br></div></div>
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Eeglablist page: <a href="http://www.sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.sccn.ucsd.edu/<wbr>eeglab/eeglabmail.html</a><br>
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