[Eeglablist] The earliest reference adopted in Hans Berger's paper (1929)?

[Makoto Miyakoshi]

Dear Dezhong,

Caton (1875) British Medical Journal reported (surface) EEG from rabbit and
monkey using Galvanometer. Amazingly, you can download this report online.

Makoto

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 6:19 AM, Dezhong Yao <dyao at uestc.edu.cn> wrote:

> Hello
>   Any one ever read the original EEG paper where what's the reference
> adopted by Hans Berger (1929)?
> thanks
> ------------------------
> Dezhong Yao  PhD
> Cheung Kong Professor of Neuroengineering, Neuroimaging
> E-mail: dyao at uestc.edu.cn
> Fax: 86-28-83208238; Tel: 86-28-83201018
> Director, Key Laboratory for NeuroInformation,  Ministry of Education,
> China
>               International Joint Research Center for NeuroInformation,
> Ministry of Science and Technology, China
> Dean,      School of Life Science and Technology, University of Electronic
> Science and Technology of China, Sichuan,Chengdu 610054, China
> Director,  Center for Information in BioMedicine, University of Electronic
> Science and Technology of China, China
> http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/bci/member/yao/yao.html
> 尧德中 电子科技大学 生命科学与技术学院/信息医学研究中心/神经信息教育部重点实验室/神经信息国际联合研究中心
>
>
> ---------- Origin message ----------
> >From："Dezhong Yao" <dyao at uestc.edu.cn>
> >To："Jonathan Folstein" <jonathan.r.folstein at gmail.com>, "
> erplab at ucdavis.edu Listserv" <erplab at ucdavis.edu>
> >Subject：Re:Re: [erplab] Through a Glass, Darkly: the Influence of the EEG
> Reference on Inference about Brain Function and Disorders
> >Date：2016-06-27 03:53:39
>
> Jonathan just pointed to the crucial merit of REST!
> REST does not need to know the true sources ( agree with Spencer, if the
> true sources can be properly determined, almost all EEG problems solved).
> actually, REST utilizes the non-uniqueness of EEG inverse problem (
> non-uniqueness is a trouble problem for EEG inverse problem), REST
> "recycles waste material", the non-uniqueness means that the same scalp
> potential can be produced either by "the true sources" or by "various
> equialent sources", REST abandons to find the true sources, but with the
> help of positions known/assumed equivalent distribured sources ( dipoles on
> a closed surface which cover all possible actual sources inside).
>
> For practical application, REST does not need to explicitly get the
> equivalent sources which are actually used to get the transfer matrix R,
> finally V(zero)=RV(actual). In another word, equivalent sources are just
> adopted conceptually as the bridge passing through the "glass, darkly" to
> the truth.
>
> For practice, R is determined by electrode montage and head model. A
> recent work (Federico Chella etal. Impact of the reference choice on scalp
> EEG connectivity estimation. 2016 J. Neural Eng. 13 036016) showed that
> REST is the best choice for various montages and models adopted in current
> EEG practices.
>
> For the original idea of REST, pls look at the attached original paper.
>
> For more general, welcome to visit www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/rest
>
> Thanks for your interests in REST!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------Dezhong Yao PhD
> Cheung Kong Professor of Neuroengineering, Neuroimaging
> E-mail: dyao at uestc.edu.cn
> Fax: 86-28-83208238; Tel: 86-28-83201018
> Director, Key Laboratory for NeuroInformation, Ministry of Education, China
> International Joint Research Center for NeuroInformation, Ministry of
> Science and Technology, China
> Dean, School of Life Science and Technology, University of Electronic
> Science and Technology of China, Sichuan,Chengdu 610054, China
> Director, Center for Information in BioMedicine, University of Electronic
> Science and Technology of China, China
> http://www.neuro.uestc.edu.cn/bci/member/yao/yao.html
> 尧德中 电子科技大学 生命科学与技术学院/信息医学研究中心/神经信息教育部重点实验室/神经信息国际联合研究中心
>
> ---------- Origin message ----------
> >From："Jonathan Folstein" <jonathan.r.folstein at gmail.com>
> >To："erplab at ucdavis.edu Listserv" <erplab at ucdavis.edu>
> >Subject：Re: [erplab] Through a Glass, Darkly: the Influence of the EEG
> Reference on Inference about Brain Function and Disorders
> >Date：2016-06-27 01:13:17The claim is that the sources need not be
> accurate if ones only goal is to
> calculate scalp distribution with infinity reference.
>
> On Sunday, June 26, 2016, Spencer, Kevin M. <kevin_spencer at hms.harvard.edu
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> >
> > It seems to me that the validity of REST rests upon the validity of
> > the source localization method (with everything that entails, including
> > electrode montage, head model, etc.). To me at least, EEG source
> > localization still seems to be a black art, not a science (except for
> > early sensory-evoked activity). If any and all EEG activity could be
> > localized with high accuracy, then REST would be valid, but why would you
> > need it if you could localize sources so well? If I'm missing something,
> > please let me know.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* erplab-request at ucdavis.edu
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab-request at ucdavis.edu');> <
> > erplab-request at ucdavis.edu
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab-request at ucdavis.edu');>> on behalf
> > of Jonathan Folstein <jonathan.r.folstein at gmail.com
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jonathan.r.folstein at gmail.com');>>
> > *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:15 PM
> > *To:* erplab at ucdavis.edu
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab at ucdavis.edu');> Listserv
> > *Subject:* Re: [erplab] Through a Glass, Darkly: the Influence of the EEG
> > Reference on Inference about Brain Function and Disorders
> >
> >
> > Hi all, I’m letting Micah’s email percolate, but just a quick rejoinder
> to
> > Steve’s (second to) last point, which I agree with.
> >
> >
> >
> > I want to study components that are commonly studied with average
> > reference (N250 and N170), but my cap is too low density to use average
> > reference. Therefore, I cannot follow Steve’s advice. If I use average
> > reference, my scalp distributions will still differ from previous studies
> > using average reference/high density because av ref is montage dependent
> > (again, cf. Liu, Quanying, et al. "Estimating a neutral reference for
> > electroencephalographic recordings: the importance of using a
> high-density
> > montage and a realistic head model." Journal of neural engineering 12.5
> > (2015): 056012., although I think this is commonly agreed, see also
> Nunez,
> > Paul L. "REST: a good idea but not the gold standard." Clinical
> > neurophysiology: official journal of the International Federation of
> > Clinical Neurophysiology 121.12 (2010): 2177. for a measured and
> > caveat-laden but still decidedly positive endorsement from Nunez).
> >
> >
> >
> > But if I use average mastoids, I get dinged on reviews because I am
> > departing from the usual reference (I of course make the point that the
> > posterior N1 was studied using averaged mastoids, but this only goes so
> far
> > because different stimuli, paradigms, etc.).
> >
> >
> >
> > That is why I am interested in REST: it should give scalp distributions
> > similar to average reference/high density even when using a low density
> > cap. In a world where average reference is very widely used, I think this
> > type of bridge between EEG traditions could be very useful to many
> > researchers (even ones that don’t play by the rules!).
> >
> >
> > cheers
> >
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Mark McCourt <mark.mccourt at ndsu.edu
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mark.mccourt at ndsu.edu');>> wrote:
> >
> >> I may not appreciate various subtleties, but if the effect of
> referencing
> >> is multiplicative/divisive then this will not alter signal/noise ratio,
> >> will it? If the effect of referencing is additive/subtractive then I can
> >> imagine that it might. If the latter then why wouldn't researchers
> >> routinely search for a reference (i.e., some combination of electrodes,
> >> possibly all) which yields the highest S/N ratio over the electrodes of
> >> greatest interest?
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >> On Jun 25, 2016, at 5:41 PM, Murray Micah <Micah.Murray at chuv.ch
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Micah.Murray at chuv.ch');>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> I am new to this distribution list and thus am not 100% sure what is the
> >> standard “protocol”. So, please forgive any diplomatic mis-steps. I have
> >> been reading this thread over the past couple of days subsequent to
> Prof.
> >> Tian’s circulating of the frontiers topic in the subject line above.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve’s figure makes an important point that has been emphasized for
> >> several decades by individuals like Dietrich Lehmann and many others
> (e.g.
> >> Lehmann’s seminal 1987 chapter entitled, “Principles of Spatial
> Analysis”);
> >> the topography of the electric field at the scalp is
> reference-independent.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> However, this by no means should encourage people to think that the
> >> reference is arbitrary or that one should use a given reference by
> >> convention with similar works in the field. The choice of the reference
> >> indeed has dramatic effects on the analysis of voltage waveforms. This
> >> again has been demonstrated countless times over the decades (see
> Figure 1
> >> from Murray et al. 2008 Brain Topography or Figure 1 from Tzovara et al
> >> 2012 Developmental Neuropsychology for fairly recent examples; the
> latter
> >> of which is reproduced here below). The variance at a given location
> >> changes with a change of reference. In my opinion, this important fact
> >> often is overlooked and contributes to the confusion that is apparent in
> >> the postings we have read over the past few days. Given that it is the
> case
> >> that analyses with different references will yield different results, I
> >> find it difficult to see how one can responsibly advise researchers to
> >> analyze their data with a variety of different references to gain any
> >> clarity on the neurobiological truth of whether (i.e. when and where on
> the
> >> scalp and hopefully by what underlying process) an experimental
> >> manipulation yielded effects.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am fairly confident that precisely this issue led individuals like
> >> Dietrich Lehmann and Herbert G. Vaughan Jr. (and many others, but these
> are
> >> individuals with whom I have first-hand accounts) to advocate analysis
> of
> >> reference-independent measures of the electric field at the scalp. In
> the
> >> case of Lehmann, he advocated analysis of Global Field Power (GFP) and
> >> Global Map Dissimilarity (a.k.a. Dissimilarity or DISS) (e.g. Lehmann
> and
> >> Skrandies, 1980 Electroenceph Clin Neurophysiol. 48:609–21). In the
> case of
> >> Vaughan Jr., he advocated analysis of Laplacian waveforms (e.g. Vaughan
> >> 1982 Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For my own part, I hope these points ultimately reduce some of the
> >> confusion that seems to persist in our field.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> With my very best regards,
> >>
> >> Micah
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <image003.png>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Micah M. Murray, Ph.D.*
> >>
> >> Director, EEG Brain Mapping Core CHUV
> >>
> >> Center for Biomedical Imaging
> >>
> >> &
> >>
> >> Director, The Laboratory for Investigative Neurophysiology (The LINE)
> >>
> >> Department of Radiology
> >>
> >> Department of Clinical Neurosciences
> >>
> >> Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Vaudois and University of Lausanne,
> >> Switzerland
> >>
> >> www.unil.ch/line
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *CHUV*
> >>
> >> *centre hospitalier universitaire vaudois*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *De :* erplab-request at ucdavis.edu
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab-request at ucdavis.edu');> [
> >> mailto:erplab-request at ucdavis.edu
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab-request at ucdavis.edu');>] *De la
> >> part de* Steven J Luck
> >> *Envoyé :* samedi 25 juin 2016 19:16
> >> *À :* erplab at ucdavis.edu
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab at ucdavis.edu');> Listserv
> >> *Objet :* Re: [erplab] Through a Glass, Darkly: the Influence of the EEG
> >> Reference on Inference about Brain Function and Disorders
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Y’all might want to take a look at the attached figure (Figure 2 from Ch
> >> 5 in the 2nd edition of An Introduction to the Event-Related Potential
> >> Technique). It makes a point that in some ways should be completely
> >> obvious but did not occur to me until I had been doing ERP research for
> >> about 25 years: Changing the reference simply adds a constant to each
> >> electrode site. It basically shifts the entire scalp distribution up or
> >> down, but it doesn’t change the relative amplitudes at the different
> >> electrodes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope this makes it clear that the reference is largely arbitrary.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> <image001.jpg>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 25, 2016, at 1:06 AM, dyao at uestc.edu.cn
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dyao at uestc.edu.cn');> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Compare the spectra maps of A1, and A1+A2 in the attached paper, you can
> >> see the effect of reference. The real problem is that you do not know
> >> where the activities are weak, you'd choose a zero/neutral one in
> general
> >> by Using REST.
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> dyao at uestc.edu.cn <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dyao at uestc.edu.cn');>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *发件人：* ty <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tiany20032003 at 163.com');>
> >>
> >> *发送时间：* 2016-06-25 15:46
> >>
> >> *收件人：* Smulders F (PSYCHOLOGY)
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','f.smulders at maastrichtuniversity.nl');>
> >>
> >> *抄送：* 'Jesse Bengson'
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jjbengson at ucdavis.edu');>; 'Brad Wyble'
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bwyble at gmail.com');>; 'erplab at ucdavis.edu
> >> Listserv' <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab at ucdavis.edu');>
> >>
> >> *主**题：* Re:RE: [erplab] Through a Glass, Darkly: the Influence of the
> >> EEG Reference on Inference about Brain Function and Disorders
> >>
> >> you maybe right if your assumption about the activities at A2 is small.
> However, sometime strong activities at both A1 and A2 are also possible, It
> is not easy to tell exactly. if someday later someone find that the true is
> strong activities at both ears, this could be misleading. I suggest to use
> REST to obtain more information.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> BEST
> >>
> >> Yin
> >>
> >>
> >> At 2016-06-23 15:47:54, "Smulders F (PSYCHOLOGY)" <
> >> f.smulders at maastrichtuniversity.nl
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','f.smulders at maastrichtuniversity.nl');>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> some thoughts that I find comforting are:
> >>
> >> a) If I record with A1 (mastoid bone behind left ear) as reference,
> >> and include A2 as ‘active’ electrode, then the EEG amplitude at A2 is
> low
> >> in comparison to the amplitude at the other electrodes. It suggests that
> >> ‘not much is going on’ at A2 vs. A1. Of course, this disregards any
> >> activity that is common to A1 and A2, but I see no good reason to expect
> >> that this common activity is large.
> >>
> >> b) For many ERP applications, we study merely lateralized activity,
> >> i.e. subtractions of voltage at homologous electrodes of left and right
> >> hemisphere, as in C3 – C4 for LRP. The reference, that is common to
> both,
> >> is then automatically subtracted, so I still sleep well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Looking forward to the special issue, though.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >>
> >> Fren
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>
> >> Fren T.Y. Smulders, PhD.
> >>
> >> Dept. of Cognitive Neuroscience
> >>
> >> Faculty of Psychology and Neuroscience
> >>
> >> Maastricht University
> >>
> >> Postal address: PO Box 616, 6200MD, Maastricht, The Netherlands
> >>
> >> Visiting address: Oxfordlaan 55, room 1.012, 6229EV
> >>
> >> E: F.Smulders at maastrichtuniversity.nl
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','F.Smulders at maastrichtuniversity.nl');>
> >>
> >> T: +31 (0)43 3881909
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* erplab-request at ucdavis.edu
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab-request at ucdavis.edu');> [mailto:
> >> erplab-request at ucdavis.edu
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab-request at ucdavis.edu');>] *On
> Behalf
> >> Of *Jesse Bengson
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2016 07:37
> >> *To:* Brad Wyble
> >> *Cc:* ty; erplab at ucdavis.edu
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','erplab at ucdavis.edu');> Listserv
> >> *Subject:* Re: [erplab] Through a Glass, Darkly: the Influence of the
> >> EEG Reference on Inference about Brain Function and Disorders
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Other than the obvious point that it is uncomfortable and distracting
> for
> >> the participants, it is a great reference!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Brad Wyble <bwyble at gmail.com
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bwyble at gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This seems like a good opportunity to ask why the tip of the nose is
> >> rarely used these days. From a physiological standpoint, it seems hard
> to
> >> imagine a better location. It is insulated from nearby muscle activity
> by
> >> a thick block of cartilage (like the ears) and has the additional
> advantage
> >> of being laterally centered. I use it for all of my recordings and it
> seems
> >> an ideal choice for standard ERP work. Is there an argument against the
> >> dear old nosetip that I'm unaware of?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> -Brad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 2:25 PM, ty <tiany20032003 at 163.com
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tiany20032003 at 163.com');>> wrote:
> >> Dear all，
> >>
> >> Since its discovery, the human electroencephalogram (EEG) has proven
> >> itself an indispensable tool for brain research. Despite this success
> >> story, there is a fundamental technical issue that has yet to be
> resolved:
> >> the selection of the correct EEG reference. Ideally one would like to
> >> measure neural activity restricted to certain brain regions. Since EEG
> >> amplifiers measure potential difference between the activities recorded
> by
> >> two electrodes, in addition to the active electrode, one must employ a
> >> reference electrode which should ideally be at zero. In theory, this
> might
> >> be achieved by placing the reference at a point infinitely far away. Yet
> >> the “infinite reference”, in practice, is an antenna for ambient noise
> >> which would preempt brain measurements—for example cephalic references
> that
> >> minimize unwanted signal pickup.
> >>
> >> Examples of such references are the unilateral-mastoid, ear, linked
> >> mastoids or ears, vertex, the tip of the nose, neck ring, etc.
> >> Unfortunately all such references are doomed to fail since there is no
> >> point on the scalp or body surface where the potential is actually zero
> or
> >> a constant. This has serious consequences since the non-neutral
> reference
> >> may itself reflect physiological dynamic processes that will be
> inevitably
> >> embedded into all EEG recordings. Without solving the reference issue we
> >> are looking at brain activity, as it were, “through a glass, darkly”.
> >>
> >> Recent attempts to make this “glass” more transparent have been based on
> >> mathematically constructing a reference based on physical principles and
> >> subtracting it from all EEG recordings. The best known example is the
> >> average reference (AVE). Originally proposed with an analog
> implementation,
> >> it was heuristically espoused by Lehman (1971) and later theoretically
> >> justified since the average of a dipole potential over a spherical
> surface
> >> is zero. Consequently, the AVE might be a good choice when a dense and
> >> whole brain coverage of an EEG montage is available, which explains why
> it
> >> is widely accepted.
> >>
> >> Nevertheless, AVE has poor performance with a lower number of
> electrodes.
> >> An alternative is the Reference Electrode Standardization Technique
> (REST)
> >> which used a re-referencing method to reconstruct the desired zero or
> >> neutral reference, based on the fact that the underlying neural sources
> are
> >> the same no matter what a reference is actually adopted.
> >>
> >> This Research Topic will encourage the objective comparison of the
> effect
> >> that various EEG references may have on inference about brain function
> and
> >> disorders—with respect to both physical and computational issues. The
> >> crucial point is to determine the reference that best identifies neural
> >> activity and therefore be the basis of improved estimates of various
> linear
> >> and non-linear EEG features. These include spectra, amplitude, latency,
> >> coherence/correlation, network, symmetry/asymmetry, fractal dimension,
> >> complexity, covariance and related statistical tests. If a single
> reference
> >> can be finally recognized universally as the optimal one for general
> use,
> >> we will have indeed rendered the “glass less opaque” and thus “know in
> >> part” more about brain function. To contribute to this end, we welcome
> our
> >> colleagues to submit paper with theoretical work, simulation studies,
> >> practical experimental data analysis as well as critical reviews.
> >>
> >> *Important Note:* All submissions/contributions to this Research Topic
> >> must be in line with the scope of the journal and section they
> >> are submitted to. While authors are encouraged to draw from other
> >> disciplines to enrich their papers where relevant, they must ensure
> papers
> >> fall within the section, as expressed in its Scope.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Keywords*: EEG, reference, ERPs
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Detailed information can be found at: *
> http://journal.frontiersin.org/researchtopic/4932/
> >> <http://journal.frontiersin.org/researchtopic/4932/>*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> With best wishes,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------
> >>
> >> Yin Tian, PhD
> >>
> >> Associate Professor
> >>
> >> Biomedical engineering department
> >>
> >> *ChongQing University of Posts and Telecommunications, China, 400065*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Brad Wyble
> >> Assistant Professor -> Associate (July 1)
> >> Psychology Department
> >> Penn State University
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://wyblelab.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <2005 comparative study of different references for EEG spectral
> >> mapping.pdf>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Steven J. Luck, Ph.D.
> >> Director, Center for Mind & Brain
> >> Professor, Department of Psychology
> >> University of California, Davis
> >> Room 109
> >> 267 Cousteau Place
> >> Davis, CA 95618
> >> (530) 297-4424
> >> E-Mail: sjluck at ucdavis.edu
> >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sjluck at ucdavis.edu');>
> >> Web: http://mindbrain.ucdavis.edu/people/sjluck
> >> Calendar:
> >>
> http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=stevenjluck%40gmail.com&ctz=America/Los_Angeles
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Folstein
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Psychology
> > Florida State University
> > 1107 W. Call St.
> > Tallahassee, FL 32306-4301
> > office: 850-645-0654
> > fax: 850-644-7739
> > folstein at psy.fsu.edu
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','folstein at psy.fsu.edu');>
> >
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Folstein
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Psychology
> Florida State University
> 1107 W. Call St.
> Tallahassee, FL 32306-4301
> office: 850-645-0654
> fax: 850-644-7739
> folstein at psy.fsu.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Makoto Miyakoshi
Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience
Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego
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