[Eeglablist] SIFT for group analysis

[Makoto Miyakoshi]

Correction:  There are 8 publications already using groupSIFT since 2024.
->  There are 8 publications already using groupSIFT since 2019.

Makoto

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 2:11 PM Arnaud Delorme via eeglablist <
eeglablist at sccn.ucsd.edu> wrote:

> Hi Bar,
>
> See the section of the tutorial on group analysis in SIFT. Several
> possibilities are proposed. The simplest one is to compute all incoming and
> outgoing individually statistically significant connections between each
> pair of ICA clusters. Some pairs of connections might have more subjects
> than others, and that’s OK. Then, do not forget to correct for multiple
> comparisons (using FDR for example).
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/sccn/SIFT/wiki/Chapter-7.-Statistics-in-SIFT*74-group-analysis-in-sift__;Iw!!Mih3wA!GxCxF7swv7Pqi28x5Lc80PSVkiIMwgqroUdBsVxw_NS_D_PAE3jIjb6hdh_8twLo2FZrt5a9HMzZFxRP336J13s4$
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Arno
>
> > On May 14, 2024, at 7:32 AM, Makoto Miyakoshi via eeglablist <
> eeglablist at sccn.ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bar,
> >
> > My impression is that there is no EEGLAB's official solution for the
> > group-level analysis of SIFT data.
> > The official SIFT package comes with an old group-level analysis
> solution,
> > but it has serious limitations and was not usable for me at least. That
> > motivated me to develop my own.
> >
> > In my opinion, the difficulty in the group-level SIFT analysis does not
> > necessarily reside in the statistics of connectivity measures per se. If
> > that were the case, using Fieldtrip functions would be sufficient to take
> > care of mass univariate analysis with some correction, like the current
> > EEGLAB STUDY does (I don't know how it works though, I have never tried
> it
> > myself). The real problem in the group-level SIFT is post-ICA
> inter-subject
> > inconsistency after all! The simple k-means clustering, or whatever
> > similar, does not work due to differences in sizes of the connectivity
> > matrices. For example, if there are 8, 12, 9, 15 brain ICs in 4 subjects,
> > the sizes of their connectivity matrices are 8x8, 12x12, 9x9, and 15x15.
> > How can you 'average' these things? If not averaging, what do you do?
> > That's the core problem on the calculation side.
> >
> > groupICA is based on Nima Bigdely-Shamlo's probabilistic IC clustering
> > approach, originally called the Network Projection, which was only
> > 'published' in his PhD dissertation. I took his framework, removed some
> > part of code that was related to the 'double dipping' problem, and added
> a
> > mass-univariate analysis framework to perform so called 'cluster-level
> > analysis' in the fMRI research. The official name is weak family-wise
> error
> > rate (wFWER) control. I used permutation test there.
> >
> > If I have a chance to re-do the code, I would like to update many
> details.
> > I'm kind of waiting for a chance to do this project with someone younger
> > with an engineering background.
> >
> > I developed groupSIFT for non-engineers. There are 8 publications already
> > using groupSIFT since 2024. I've supported all of these papers, but in
> most
> > of the cases they did not need my help. If you want to ask
> > their impressions about using gruopSIFT, I can give you their email
> address.
> >
> > If you are interested in using groupSIFT with my support to write a
> paper,
> > let me know. I'd be happy to work with you.
> >
> > Makoto
> >
> > On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 8:22 AM Bar Lehmann via eeglablist <
> > eeglablist at sccn.ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> I would like to better understand how SIFT should or should not be used
> >> with group analysis. I see that SIFT has a group analysis button, yet in
> >> the SIFT wiki there is a reference to Makoto's GroupSIFT plugin, thus
> >> seeming to suggest that SIFT is only partially set up for group
> analysis,
> >> and GroupSIFT is needed for fully doing group analysis. Can someone
> please
> >> clarify the limitation of SIFT group analysis option, and how GroupSIFT
> >> adds to the possibilities for group analysis?
> >>
> >> Thanks very much for any insight you can provide,
> >> Bar
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