[Eeglablist] about using the tip of nose as reference channel

[Arnaud Delorme]

A little word of caution here. 

Include EOG channels in ICA decompositions ONLY if they have the same reference as other channels. If they are bipolar channels, I would not include them.

Arno

On Oct 29, 2014, at 9:43 PM, Makoto Miyakoshi <mmiyakoshi at ucsd.edu> wrote:

> Dear Hui-bin,
> 
> Ok, try this: you prepare 3 (or 5 or 10) copies of the same data, but one of them referenced with Cz, another referenced to nose tip, another referenced to average,... and run ICA separately and compare results. They should show exactly the same results (other than baseline values).
> 
> And, I gave you wrong reply, I apologize it; I recommend you INCLUDE EOG channels into ICA (James, you are absolutely right and I agree with you.) Don't remove them if you want better EOG (therefore EEG) decomposition.
> 
> Makoto
> 
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:22 AM, James Jones-Rounds <jj324 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> Hi Hui-bin,
> 
> I just want to add that I typically leave my HEOG and VEOG channels IN the data that's fed into the ICA. Leaving them in helps the ICA find the eye-movement related components. It seemed like Makoto was agreeing with you that you should remove the HEOG and VEOG channels pre-ICA.
> 
> However, one distinction is that my EOG channels are around the outer edge of each eye, not on the tip of the nose, and my offline reference channels are the mastoid channels, which I do typically remove pre-ICA. So if you're worried about eye-movement contamination in your tip-of-the-nose reference channel, then it's probably good to remove it pre-ICA.
> 
> Not sure if that helps at all!
> 
> James
> 
> -- 
> James Jones-Rounds
> Laboratory Manager
> Human Development EEG and Psychophysiology (HEP) Laboratory,
> Department of Human Development,
> --------------------------------------------
> Cornell University | Ithaca, NY
> 607-255-9883
> eeg at cornell.edu
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Makoto Miyakoshi
> Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience
> Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego
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