[Eeglablist] Data change when updating eeglab from version 10 to 12

Thu Sep 12 02:33:39 PDT 2013

Dear Nicolas and Arno,
I recently ran an ANOVA statistic of ERSP maps across conditions and
encountered the same problem of inconsistency of statistics results each
time I run the analysis.
In short, every time I run the permutation statistics analysis I get
different significant electrodes.
I encountered this issue in EEGLAB 8,10 and 12 (didn't try 11).
I see now that Nicolas reported exactly the same problem.
Were you able to solve it?

Thank you for your help,
Ilana

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Arnaud Delorme <arno at ucsd.edu> wrote:

> Dear Nicolas,
>
> your problem is worth investigating. I have checked with the tutorial
> STUDY, and the results with parametric statistics (EEGLAB) are strictly
> identical from one call to the next when plotting channel ERSP
> time-frequency images or channel ERSP scalp topographies. Also since 2010,
> we have a battery of independent test that check EEGLAB statistics agains
> the Matlab statistics toolbox. After adding Fieldtrip statistics to the
> EEGLAB graphic interface  last year, we also implemented the same tests for
> these new functions (which is how we discovered a bug in Anova Fieldtrip
> statistics by the way - currently in the process of being fixed).
> This said, no program is perfect. Please upload your data to Bugzilla so
> we can try reproduce the problem and see what is going on.
>
> http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/bugzilla
>
> If your data is really large (>1Gb), put it on our public FTP server
> (ask Derrick Lock <dlock at ucsd.edu> for the address as I prefer to write
> it here for security reasons). Let's also continue this discussion off the
> list.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Arno
>
> On 2 May 2013, at 09:30, Nicolas Rochet wrote:
>
>  Dear Makoto and Arno,
> To sum up: i'm using study analysis using *channels* (with GUI) to
> compare two conditions. After further testings, i have similar issues with
> EEGLAB version 12 and 11.05.5.4b : the stats maps (for condition
> comparaison in ERSP / ITC analysis) are changing each time i replot
> whatever stats option i use. Also, while ERP's topographics map are not
> changing, the significant channels (when comparing the two conditions) are
> changing each time i replot.
> Strangely, those issues only happens with EEGLAB statistic's option,
> indeed when i choose Fieldtrip stat's option, i don't have this problem:
> the stats map remains the same after each replotting.
>
> cordially,
> Nicolas
>
> Le 30/04/2013 17:00, Makoto Miyakoshi a écrit :
>
> Dear Nicolas and Arno,
>
>  > some of these data, the stats are changing, whatever stats option i
> used (parametric, permutations, with or without holms correction and
> bonferoni correction).
>
> Permutation results may change because this approach is based on random
> permutation. However parametric test result should not. Could you check it
> again?
>
>  > ERP's topographic map's ( the significant channels are not the same
> each time i replot).
>
> Significant channels? You mean you are running STUDY analysis using
> channels? If that's the case I'm not experienced with it.
>
>  However, changing topographic maps is familiar with me. However, I want
> to know exactly what you are doing (using ICs or channels)
>
>  Makoto
>
> 2013/4/26 Nicolas Rochet <nicolas.rochet at univ-provence.fr>
>
>>  Hi Makoto,
>> Firstly, I recomputed ERP, ERSP and ITC after updating to version 12. I
>> realised that (when using the study's GUI with version 12) each time i plot
>> some of these data, the stats are changing, whatever stats option i used
>> (parametric, permutations, with or without holms correction and bonferoni
>> correction).
>> For example. when i try to compare ERSP maps in two different condition:
>> each time i replot it, the corresponding stat map is changing while the
>> ERSP map is the same. I had the same problem with ITC maps or for ERP's
>> topographic map's ( the significant channels are not the same each time i
>> replot).
>>
>> Do you have any idea ? Nobody seems to have reported similar issues ....
>>
>> Nicolas
>>
>> Le 18/04/2013 03:26, Makoto Miyakoshi a écrit :
>>
>> Dear Nicolas,
>>
>>  I'd be interested in learning how much the difference was. Would you
>> mind explaining it to us?
>>
>>  Makoto
>>
>>
>> 2013/4/15 Nicolas Rochet <nicolas.rochet at univ-provence.fr>
>>
>>> Dear EEGLAB community,
>>> I was previously using eeglab version 10.2.2.4b. After updating EEGLAB
>>> to  version 12.0.2.0b (with SVN) the SAME data (ie  ERP, ERSP and ITC
>>> grand average) processed with the study protocol are different with the
>>> two version
>>> Does anybody encountered similar issues ?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nicolas
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nicolas Rochet, PhD Student
>>> Laboratoire de Neurosciences Cognitives, UMR 7291
>>>
>>> Université de Provence / CNRS
>>> Pôle 3C - Case C
>>> 3 place Victor Hugo
>>> 13331 Marseille Cedex 03
>>> France
>>>
>>> tel : (+33) 04 13 55 09 00 <%28%2B33%29%2004%2013%2055%2009%2000>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> Makoto Miyakoshi
>> Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience
>> Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nicolas Rochet, PhD Student
>> Laboratoire de Neurosciences Cognitives, UMR 7291
>>
>> Université de Provence / CNRS
>> Pôle 3C - Case C
>> 3 place Victor Hugo
>> 13331 Marseille Cedex 03
>> France
>>
>> tel : (+33) 04 13 55 09 00
>>
>>
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>> Eeglablist page: http://sccn.ucsd.edu/eeglab/eeglabmail.html
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>
>
>
>  --
> Makoto Miyakoshi
> Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience
> Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego
>
>
>
> --
> Nicolas Rochet, PhD Student
> Laboratoire de Neurosciences Cognitives, UMR 7291
>
> Université de Provence / CNRS
> Pôle 3C - Case C
> 3 place Victor Hugo
> 13331 Marseille Cedex 03
> France
>
> tel : (+33) 04 13 55 09 00
>
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