[Eeglablist] (no subject)

Ayda Ghahremani ghahremani.aida at gmail.com
Tue Sep 16 11:50:37 PDT 2014


Dear EEGLAB,

Thanks to Tyler, Mokoto and David for your suggestions and providing your
references. Your help is indeed appreciated.

All the best,
Ayda

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 2:16 PM, David Groppe <david.m.groppe at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ayda,
>    To add a bit to Makoto's great response, the disadvantage of having so
> few channels is that it impairs ICA's ability to cleanly separate sources.
> However, there are some nice simulation studies showing that when there are
> more EEG/iEEG sources than electrodes, ICA can still accurately unmix
> strong sources:
>
> Makeig, S., Jung, T.-P., Ghahremani, D., & Sejnowski, T. J. (2000).
> Independent component analysis of simulated ERP data. In T. Nakada (Ed.),
> Integrated Human Brain Science (pp. 123-146). New York: Elsevier.
>
> Kobayashi, K., James, C. J., Nakahori, T., Akiyama, T., &
> Gotman, J. (1999). Isolation of epileptiform discharges from unaveraged
> EEG by independent component analysis. Clinical Neurophysiology, 110(10),
> 1755-1763.
>
> So even with such few channels you may be able to get some accurate ICs.
>
> The advantage (in a way) of having so few channels is that you won't need
> much data for ICA to provide stable results:
>
> Groppe, D.M., Makeig, S., & Kutas, M. (2009) *Identifying reliable
> independent components via split-half comparisons*. *NeuroImage*, 45 pp.
> 1199-1211.
>
> I say "in a way" as when you have a lot of channels you can always
> approximate them with a lower number of principal components if need be.
> More data is generally always better.
>   Hope this helps,
>      -David
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 1:27 PM, Makoto Miyakoshi <mmiyakoshi at ucsd.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Ayda,
>>
>> Very interesting and promising application!
>>
>> > 1- Are ICA results still valid to apply in this situation?
>>
>> As long as they were recorded simultaneously with the same clock same
>> subject same sampling, yes.
>>
>> > 2- A total of 12 channels and large samples are enough to do the ICA? I
>> have looked into the literature, but I cannot find a consistent validated
>> report on the ICA on small channels.
>>
>> I published 16ch ERP studies with ICA but only for cleaning purpose. It's
>> fine, nothing is wrong with it.
>>
>> Makoto
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Ayda Ghahremani <
>> ghahremani.aida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear EEGLAB,
>>>
>>> I have a question regarding the application of ICA to combined EEGs from
>>> scalp and LFPs from subcortical regions.
>>>
>>> 1- Are ICA results still valid to apply in this situation?
>>> 2- A total of 12 channels and large samples are enough to do the ICA? I
>>> have looked into the literature, but I cannot find a consistent validated
>>> report on the ICA on small channels.
>>>
>>> I appreciate your help on this,
>>> Ayda
>>>
>>> PhD Candidate,
>>> Toronto Western Hospital
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Makoto Miyakoshi
>> Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience
>> Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> David Groppe, Ph.D.
> Institute Scientist
> Laboratory for Multimodal Human Brain Mapping
> Feinstein Institute for Medical Research
> Manhasset, New York
> http://www.cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dgroppe/
>
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